FURTHER DISCUSSION WITH TEACHER OF CHRISTIAN TEACHERS CONTINUED:

M. J. Young....... I have skimmed through your latest letter and will make only a few points.
>
M. J. Young....... In response to my assertion that "We have good evidence that Matthew's
> Gospel was written less than twenty years after Jesus' death" you asked,
> "Now if some one were to ask you to write down points of this discussion
> in 20 years time how accurate do you think you would be?"

M. J. Young....... Ah, that's a fair question; but there are several reasons to trust the
> memories of the authors of those books.
>
M. J. Young....... First, as noted, they clearly worked from earlier written records which
> are lost to us.

Ozay wrote.......It has been proven by many experiments with participant memory of a scene of an accident, that for instance; you may have 20 witnesses to a scene of an accident and in 20 testimonies to that same accident that much of the witness statements do not tally with each others, thus indicating that even though the witnesses were questioned shortly after the accident, ie same day or some hours after or even minutes after that they were not totally accurate and as more time passes, days and then months they became even more inaccurate and did not tie in with each of the 20 witnesses, though they were able to identify the main characteristics ie some one got hit by a car, but incriminating evidence such as going through red or green or orange light were often inaccurate and various other pieces of information, if there was a house or wall near by, how many people involved, discription of people fat thin racial etc.

Ozay wrote.......Further it was also found, by making such statements in questioning a witness in, this way: "Then what did the driver of the car do once he had passed the traffic lights"? And though there were no traffic lights involved at the scene, or at the scene of the accident, the witness would include traffic lights into his or her memory and testimony even though they did not exist. These kind of experiments were repeated with the same situation and various other incidents and the same results were repeated, thus human memory is not a reliable source of information. And here you have a problem not only with unreliability with memory, and on top of this how false memories can be planted, you have time which changes meanings of words, translations which also changes meaning of words then you have misunderstandings plus a list of other things. Though again I remind you there is some thing of value in the Bible which I have found, but there is a lot of misinformation, and it is this misinformation that are keeping people away from god realiseation state of being.

Ozay wrote.......And I again I remind you, for instance, you quite rightly corrected me on the word "ARGUMENT" for me I understood the word argument, as an inability to have self control, where one's ego has been dented and this then kicks off all kind of instinctive reactions, aggression, ie shouting, him who shouts loudest wins, or to try to make some one submit to your ideas, your belief, to hurt some one who has hurt your ego etc all those lowered minded things that belong to the lower man, that is one valid meaning to the word "ARGUMENT".
And there is another interpretation of the word "ARGUMENT" which is confusing, when compared to the first interpretation, and that is an argument is about two people discussing with high reasoning and coming to answers of truth possibly that way which is what we are aiming for in this discourse.

Ozay wrote.......Now those two interpretations are opposites almost, and that has happened just in this one discussion, and so maybe we have even had other misunderstandings of an interpretation of other words that we have not even identified yet, or never will identify. that is just in this small discourse that we are having. Now think about the volumes of the writings of the Bible, think about all of those pages, and all of those various witnesses to the same event, and indeed those who have hear say evidence, think; all of those words. Do you see? Again this is a truth that human memory is not a stable source of truth, it cannot be because truth is not changeable and memory is, and when you have come to know this TRUTH then you have to look at what you believe in another way. In this situation I can say "I KNOW TRUTH AND THAT TRUTH IS MEMORY IS NOT RELIABLE, AND THAT IS TRUTH"

Ozay wrote.......Further: You are not giving an answer to human greed for power and corruption to use religion as a way of gaining control over a population and taking tax off them, for instance did the Muslim according to Jesus deserve to die because they were infidels, or because they claimed the Holy city Jeruslem as their own, did this warrant the death penalty? Did the so called witches during the time of witch hunting also deserve to die? Just because they had a there own nature religion they were peaceful people according to many source's yet they were persecuted by the church and burned or drowned to death.

Ozay wrote.......These actions by those people who carried out those horrific crimes were justified because it was the way they had interpreted the Bible and Christianity and it was their belief, was this belief out of one of the 20 you mention?


>
M. J. Young....... Second, Jesus was a skilled teacher who used many techniques to help his
> students learn and remember. For one thing, He repeated many of his
> lessons in much the same form on several occasions. For another, He
> used mnemonics that are clear in the Aramaic--poetic tricks, puns,
> statements that were inherently memorable.

Ozay wrote.......And where are these techniques? Are they in the Bible? Let me see, there is a story where he spent 40 days and 40 nights in the worldliness battle with the devil, For instance the Devil, understood as mind of man would change the whole meaning, but because it is 'believed as a true entity then it has another totally different meaning and it is not personal meaning but some one or thing else. Then there are stories of Jesus going into prayer and meditation, and there is a story of him giving the lords prayer, so what have I missed out where are his techniques exactly? Otherwise he gave only words such as if your brother strikes you, turn the other cheek. Yes I can see that being used as a good technique, it is a pity that technique is not used much if at all. If your brother wrongs you and he asks for forgiveness, then forgive him.

OK understood, now if Jesus's teachings were handed on and they were all source accurate how come there are no god realised Christians today or there are very few? The proof of the pudding you baked is in the actual evidence of the example of what the Christian church has produced today, and I have heard of no living example today that there are any living Saints, and if there are that I have not heard of, they are very few indeed, otherwise there would be many miracles and Saints today, but all we hear about the Church today mostly implies a negative association for many people, that is in the media, but for me I do know there are a lot of people who mean well who are in the Church, but they will never evolve to god realisation because they do not have the correct foundation to stand on, they have misinformation that causes war, but their foundation today stands unfirmly on the sands of belief and not on the concrete foundation of truth. Your argument is a very weak argument. But again I tell you all you have to do is ask the right questions and this infirmity that the whole Christian church has on belief can be resolved and truth can replace it, but you are to egoistical to step down from your feeling of superiority to ask any question in order to find god in yourself you think you have all the answers but you do not.


>
M. J. Young....... Third, the people of the day did not have printing or recording, and so
> they practiced memory to a much greater degree than we do today. They
> had techniques for committing things to memory to record later.

Ozay wrote.......Yes, I gather the Vedas were also given like this, and the teachings of Buddhism, and the teachings of the native American Indians, the teachings of the Aboriginals also are still being practised like this again can you not see in light of the evidence that I have pointed out to you this method of belief you have is flawed, which you do not even consider, you over look this very important point. If some one does not reach god realiseation and then carries on to teach knowledge of the Bible and Christian teachings that teaching will be flawed because the teacher himself has not understood the teaching for if the teacher did understand the teaching then he would be god realised, it is like teaching a child to swim by some one who cannot swim themselves, they can only teach theoretically that whole idea is flawed.


>
M. J. Young....... Fourth, Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit would bring everything back
> to their minds. That suggests that God was directly involved in their
> ability to remember.

Ozay wrote.......This statement that you have used is actually a direct contradiction of what God is, but because you have not experienced god that is why you do not know what a great contradiction you are making, you are telling the swimmer how to swim, yet you have never been in the water and swam that is what this last sentence says loudest to me, but worse you speak to one who has been in the water and knows how to swim, how to swim and do not even realise it, that is the worse, you do not realise.


>
M. J. Young....... Fifth, what Jesus told them mattered very much to them. I hate to say
> it, but in one year I expect that I will have trouble remembering your
> name or the details of our discussion; you will have faded into the
> background as someone who rejected the true gospel as presented in the
> Bible in favor of a nameless mysticism,

Ozay wrote.......Actually, you will remember not the name so much as the stinging truth, and that is only because once you have been exposed to TRUTH, not to name, "things will happen" But if you are not ready, then you will be protected by your defence mechanisms, which will only make that you can avoid the truth for a little longer but eventually it will catch you again, every time you are hurt, every time you are insulted, every time you are depressed, angry, sorrowful, jealous, proud truth will stand like a dark shadow, you see that is the law of truth, not the law of my name or my ego.

M. J. Young....... and who wanted me to follow the
> same path. That is not to say that you have had no impact on me.

Ozay wrote.......Yet again you create another trait in Ozay Rinpoche that only exists in your own mind so that you can justify another inaccurate statement as you have just made. What I have been saying that the Bible has a path, and that people are not understanding that path, and that the proof of this is in the eating, the results of god realised Christians speak for itself there are none or very few indeed. Tell me if you know of any who are living? Show me the proof in the example they have given if they do exists, and I will tell you if that is good example, so far all I have met is the same as you, scholars who are over loaded with too much information, or knowledge, who speak bible paragraphs like parrots and have no human soul or any compassion, only if you start to speak the same way are you accepted in this false alliance.

M. J. Young....... I recall fragments of an e-mail discussion I had years ago with someone
> who had embraced Eastern mysticism, and I will recall fragments of our
> discussion. What I mean is that our discussion is not important enough
> for me to want to remember it after I send this e-mail--I have scores of
> people writing to me with questions, and I can help most of them, and it
> is enough for me that when I hear from them again I am able to recall
> who they are and what generally they wanted to know before. You don't
> actually want to know anything; you don't want my help. I don't need to
> remember what you are trying to tell me, because it is completely
> inconsequential in the long term.

Ozay wrote.......These mails are not wasted so don't worry I have made sure.......You do not understand, what I am about here, it does not matter how you think in what I say, what really matters is that I make you "FEEL" this "FEEL" has more value than any mental concept, and further I tell you there is a centre in you that is apart from mind that "FEELS" and has its own intelligence, it has its own language, it is this part of you that I am speaking to, it is this part of you that will create dreams when you go to bed at night, this is a greater intelligence than your mind could ever fathom, but because your mind and FEELING centre has no bridge of communication to each other, you will never know what I am truly saying as a mental idea, but "YOU" (FEELING) will know and there will be a struggle with personality (MIND) and soul (FEELING CENTRE) one day you will come to the truth again and it will disturb your centre of feeling as I have done, and it is this that will remember again, but it does not matter that it will not give my name, because the name of it is TRUTH, my name is not important.


>
M. J. Young....... You wrote, "Again I will ask the question you refuse to answer and in
> this refusal you give the answer: WHAT IS THE GREATER TRUTH......BELIEF
> OF TRUTH?.......OR.......KNOWING TRUTH?
>
M. J. Young.......I'm pretty sure I answered that: I have answered that believe and
> knowledge are essentially the same thing, so neither of those can be
> greater than the other. It would be as if I asked you whether it is
> more important to drink water or to imbibe dihydrous oxygen. There is
> no alternative between the two.

Ozay wrote.......That is not an answer because the answer is either yes, or no to each question. BELIEF AND KNOWLEDGE IS YOUR ANSWER? Inner knowledge can be "EXPERIENCED" and that is nothingness, or a state of VOID, yet within that void there is another experience which identifies as an experience the TRUTH of god......OK IT an EXPERIENCE that can be RE-EXPERIENCED OVER AND OVER if one follows the inner path. and it can be repeated by others if they too follow that path, therefore if this is the case which it is as I have followed that path layed down by others who have followed that path and identify the same things we can conclude because we have actually put our fingers in the wound of Jesus we "KNOW" and that is true knowledge that does not need to have any belief associated to it. IT IS AN EXPERIENCE OF TRUTH....NOTHINGNESS......GOD......HERE IS WHERE CREATION BEGINS AND MIRACLES.
This means that belief of knowledge without experience cannot have any value, so this means your answer can only be that you think BELIEF OF TRUTH is your answer, which means it cannot be the truth, because Atheists have belief, Hindus have belief, Muslims have belief, Buddhists have belief, and guess what they are all DIFFERENT BELIEFS, and that means the definition of what implies truth is not there, that is why a scientist will say he believes this theory 'could' be true, but is ready at any time to change his belief of that theory if data points to some thing else, he knows this truth though, that a whole theory and therefore belief can be changed from one day to the next, but some scientists have a problem to be this flexible especially when they have had a scholarship for many years and the new discovery implies that what he has learned has no value any more. Hence he has to go back to school again, LIFE HAS BEEN WASTED IN FOLLOWING HIS BELIEFS INSTEAD OF ACCEPTING CHANGE IS TRUTH. AT THE ROOT OF EVERYTHING IS NOTHINGNESS, THAT IS TRUTH.