DISCUSSION GOES ON AND ON WITH TEACHER OF TEACHERS, THESE ARE HARDEST OF ALL EGOS

M. J. Young...... You wrote:
> *****
> ...this effect is short lived and has no long term effect where as the
> true experince has a permanent effect.
>If what god is telling you that what he told you is different than
> what I have been given then it is likely that you fit the category of
> person that I have just mentioned,...
> *****
>
M. J. Young...... O.K., let me try this: if what you believe God has told you is
> different from what the Apostle Paul was given, then it is likely that
> you are dealing with a different spirit who is not God nor Jesus Christ
> whom God has sent.


Ozay wrote.......Again, again and again I have told you, why is it you do not take notice, here it is for the 100th time, just for your ego to see:::I HAVE NO BELIEF, I AM BRAVE ENOUGH TO SAY I EITHER KNOW OR I DO NOT KNOW, only a man who lives by belief and opinions is otherwise. And because of this, you cannot begin to know the true God, you the blind make such judgement, I see further down you mention arrogance, I have never seen anything more arrogant than this.


>
M. J. Young...... My studies, which you so denigrate, have given me a very clear
> understanding of what the Apostle Paul taught. That is also consistent
> with my experience of God.

Ozay wrote.......If you had the true experience of God you would not need Paul to confirm anything, you would not need no book to confirm, in fact that you hold a book in hand for confirmation indicates that you have not had that experience it likely fits the variety I have mentioned before I have seen so many of you who have claimed this, yet the shape of your ego is plenty of proof, but you cannot know none of this because your ego cannot allow to lose to me, my ego has already been lost to truth.


>
M. J. Young...... ozay wrote....That experience with God dates back over most of half a century, so if
> it is "short lived" with "no long term effect" it is difficult to prove
> that someone else's is longer, or will be longer by the time mine ends.
>
M. J. Young...... I do not deny that you have had a spiritual experience. I question
> whether the spirit that you contacted is the God of Abraham, of Jacob,
> of Noah, of Moses, of Jesus, and of Paul. Your arrogant insistence that
> you are right and Paul is wrong only confirms my belief that you have
> missed the truth.

Ozay wrote.......Arrogance only belongs to ego, when ego has been conquered such as in my case, it is merely a simple truth, and therefore on this point it is more about you and where you stand and why you chose to believe what you believe rather than follow the way and find out, but to do this you would have to sacrifice so much of your prestige which is what I would be asking you to do....Remember god has no name, when asked by one of those historical characters you have learned about he was told I AM THAT WHAT I AM. And this can only be understood by one who has God realiseation, forget about the names...ALL YOU HAVE IS BELIEF SOME BASED ON TRUTH AND SOME BASED ON UNTRUTHS, WHICH REALLY MEANS 1 DEGREE OUT OF THE COMPASS AND YOU HAVE MISSED THE DESTINATION WHEN YOU ARE MEANT TO GET THERE.


M. J. Young......You will call me arrogant for saying so. I can only answer that my
> claim is not that God has given me personal revelation of truths which I
> insist everyone else who has encountered God knows, but that God has
> given Paul such revelation, and confirmed that as truth to me.

Ozay wrote........You are talking about a historical figure who lived 2000 years ago, on top of that you are talking about a language that like any other language that has chad words meaning change, just like our English language, look at the difference for some of the meanings Americans give to the same words used in UK or the Austrailians that is enough proof for you that 1 degree out on the compass can change the detination, then of course there is translation on top of time change, your information has become flawed because of that, then since Jesus died Christianity went through the hands of Roman emperors etc etc. How can you have any grounds for an argument even with another academic, never along with onne like me who HAS HAD THE TRUE EXPERIENCE OF GOD, LIKE IT OR LUMP IT, THAT IS THE TRUTH. IF YOU DONT LIKE IT THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM SO SAVE YOUR EGO OR FINISH IT NOW.


>
M. J. Young...... You wrote:
> *****
> ...yet all sentences in the Bible point you back to this one sentence:
> Be STILL and KNOW THAT I AM GOD.
> *****
>
M. J. Young...... Interestingly, those words appear only once in the Bible, in Psalm
> 46:10, and are never quoted or cited elsewhere. They have much less
> claim to being the core message of the Bible than, say, "Love the Lord
> your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength", "Love your
> neighbor as yourself", "The righteous will live by faith", or even
> "Abraham trusted God, and it was reckoned to him as
> righteousness"--words which are repeated multiple times in scripture,
> which are discussed and expounded.

Ozay wrote.......Well quoted 1 or 100 times, it has been quoted and has meaning, and backs up the true experience this will be testified by all saints who have had god experience, why do you think they needed isolation? Be still know that I am god. Ok Love the lord your god with all your body soul and mind I tell you when you have become still this love is not ordinary love and that is why it is called divine love, one must be still, and time will stop, and your space will dissapear along with the self, here is what born again is ego dies the nature of mind is understood as falsity, see you do not know nothing of this, but all the clues are given in the bible. Everything is correct as you quoted, but you DO NOT UNDERSTAND IT AS IT IS MEANT.


>
M. J. Young...... It appears to me that you are trying to find what you wish to be believe
> in the pages of the Bible, instead of trying to define what you believe
> from the Bible.

Ozay wrote....Here you go again 'BELIEF' Anyone who has belief will be flawed, he will also be at war with himself and with humanity, because belief will change but truth cannot,HOW MANY MORE TIME WILL I TELL YOU AND STILL THOUGH YOU LISTEN YOU DO NOT HEAR ME, THOUGH YOU LOOK YOU SEE NOTHING ARE YOU SO LOST?


>
M. J. Young...... And the state of nothingness you describe is not suggested anywhere in
> scripture. God does not want us to cease to be individuals. He wants
> us to become individuals united in love with Him and each other, but
> always individuals.

Ozay wrote.......Imagine the roman emperors giving mankind the power to become just like Jesus? Now remember before Jesus death he stayed up all night in a quiet place in prayer and meditation, then he was in the worldiness for forty days and forty nights, do you think he went to the disco with the devil? come now surely you have greater intelligence than this, teacher of teachers who cannot answer simple questions?


>
M. J. Young...... I mentioned "Paul, Augustine, Athanasius, and Tertulian...Wycliff,
> Luther, Hus, and others....", to which you replied:
>
> *****
> I know none of these Saints....
> *****
>
M. J. Young...... How can I take seriously the claims of someone who does not recognize
> the names of the Apostle Paul (who wrote half the books in the New
> Testament), St. Augustine (whose "City of God" saved the church when the
> Roman Empire fell by separating the church from the state), St.
> Athanasius (whose writings include one of the great summations of
> Christian faith, the Athanasian Creed), Tertulian (the greatest
> Christian scholar of the earliest Christian centuries), John Wycliff
> (who fought to bring the Bible into English), Martin Luther (who gave us
> our recognition of the great Solas, only scripture, only faith, only
> grace), John Hus (whose writings bridged the gap from Wycliff to Luther,
> seminal to the great religious awakening we call the Reformation)? You
> have no notion at all what Christianity teaches, despite having read the
> Bible so many times.

Ozay wrote.......Do you think that these poor saints when they went into isolation took a whole library of books with them and by the time they finished reading them they attained saint hood and that they also quoted all the saints that lived and died? there is one other thing you are over looking the political needs of the past popes the emperors of Rome, alll these are factors on why things in the Bible have been changed, are not the dead sea scrolls some proof of this? I tell you I am the living Bible and some where inside you that same Bible exists but you have to get out of your head and out of your ego in order to read it, but it is like asking a rich man to crawl through the eye of a needle with you too much of your life depends on proving to me and yourself that you are correct and the truth that comes from this vessel are wrong.


>
M. J. Young...... As to whether saints create division, it is arguable that you have
> created it by writing to me. You will argue that I created it by
> rejecting your message,

Ozay wrote.......It is NOT MY MESSAGE It is the message I HAD TO ACCEPT BECAUSE THAT TRUTH, THAT MESSAGE WAS GREATER THAN ME, THE EGO HAD TO DIE IN ORDER TO HEAR THAT MESSAGE.


M. J. Young......but the fact is equally so that you have
> rejected mine--and that is the way it is with divisions.

Ozay wrote.......I have offered you the ONE THING THAT CAN UNITE THE WHOLE WORLD AND YOUR EGO REJECTS IT, THEREFORE IT IS EGO MIND THAT IS DIVIDED AND THOSE WHO LIVE THIS WAY WILL ALWAYS BE DIVIDED AS YOU ARE WITH ME, BUT i AM NOT DIVIDED FROM YOU..

M. J. Young......Someone recognizes that the truth has been missed, overlooked, perverted,
> compromised, and he stands up for the truth and is rejected by those who
> do not understand or who have a vested interest in the perverted
> version. You can call the one who stands for the truth divisive, and
> those who stand for the error because they do not recognize the truth
> will do so, believing that they stand for the truth. I can call you
> divisive because you neither know nor care what the message of the
> Christian church has been over the centuries. You can call it divisive,
> but you fail to see the substantive unity.

Ozay wrote.......In everything I have spoken I have explained to you that the nature of mind is divided, and man who lives by mind, ego will always be divided, we are talking not with the heart, but we are talking with the mind, and as proof of my last comment we are still divided, but if your heart was listening then you would not speak from your superior intellect, you would not think, but you would FEEL MY LOVE BY KNOWINGYOU ARE LOVE AND WE ARE THE SAME, AS I DO. therefore knowing this to be truth, who is divided from who in this conversation, who will not listen to there heart, who will not listen to the words of unity, but rather who is quoting from out dated scripture and telling one who has truly had god experience that they are wrong? this is all your mental projections and that is the nature of division, this is the truth, and you can argue but you must know you are wrong deep down. Is it not time for you to let go and find the true nature of yourself along with the true meaning of the Bible written into every mans heart?


>
M. J. Young...... I hope that your experience truly is with The God, but I fear for you.
> The Bible is the only reliable "map" we have of the spiritual realm, and
> you seem woefully lost in discussing that.

Ozay wrote.......It is yourself you should fear for, because you are living in 'BELIEF' and I am not, do not fear for me, fear is of mind and belongs to lower man and animals. Yes a map but not a resting place that is the Bible, time to travel where that maps indicates the destination is, it is nice looking at all those contour lines and all the places to see on the map and imagine them, but actually travelling there is different.


>
> --M. J. Young