CONTINUED DISCUSSION WITH A TEACHER OF CHRISTIAN TEACHERS

M. J. Young....... Thank you again for your note. I am afraid that I have run out of time
> for this discussion, and can only make a few cursory comments.
>

Ozay wrote.....Not always a good idea to take the topic further if you cannot have time to deal with it full for instance the usual thisng to happen is that for instance one ling gets taken out of a whole meaning and turned off course often this is done to graitfy ego's sense of self and identity it is a need to maintain power in its self esteem, let us see what has happened, you have not run out of time that is a fallacy what has happened is you have run out of energy because the you were energised by the ego's need to have prestige, recognition.


M. J. Young....... You wrote:
> *****
> Yet there was only one interpretation Jesus meant, and only one
> interpretation can be come to when one follows the way, that is why I
> can speak with confidence that the interpretation I have come to is the
> one Jesus meant....
> *****
>
M. J. Young.......And here our ability to communicate fails us. This is at the root of all.
>
> God gave us both objective and a subjective evidences. They are indeed
> intended to work together. However, the objective information must be
> grasped and handled objectively, or it ceases to have objective value.

Ozay wrote....This is what I mean, in the last mail it was explained to you, that is the truth was explained about subjective and objective it was painted out to you in mdetail it was even pointed out to you in explaining scientific research that has been carried out which all proved that because man has to filter everything through his mind then this means that nothing can be objective, infact the truth is everything is subjective, and this being such an important issue you have demonstrated how smart the ego is to pull this up and not even wish to varyfie these research studies, who is your ego or my ego to ignore that which stands for ever? This inability to converse with this issue means that you are not qualified to argue, indeed until you can leave the ego behind you can only be a student in life that is the truth I am sorry if this hurts your ego, but if you do not face this you will like lots of others in your position mislead people the error must stop now, first come to the truth in the correct way, undestand this particular part of the topic that is everything is subjective, this will give you a solid start, I guess that I will not see any or many more post from you after this one because there is no way your ego can run except to the truth in this discourse and going to the truth will be brutal for your ego, there is a difference between idiot compassion and true compassion, a compassionate father will correct his child with the rod if he has to, a father who is governed by idiotic compassion will say to the child there there you were not wrong you will be ok doing this carry on but....nothing


>
M. J. Young....... You are so focused on the subjective that you take the objective as
> supporting what you think the subjective is telling you. Yet this makes
> your argument circular, and ultimately of no force to anyone else.

Ozay wrote.......I have no argument science has proven to me as it should to you and everyone else, if I argue against the truth of science then it is my subjective nature my ego identifying to what 'I' say is right, my ego has to recognise that truth is greater than my egoistical belief, not only has science identified this truth that you deny but I to have been able to confirm it within this self as the truth, you belief system will deteriorate into a minority group because of this one day, if you do not address this issue and if others do not address this IMPORTANT issue then Christianity will die away this statement I have made is powerful because it has no belief involved but acceptance of the truth, and for you, it is like this ego will find a defence system to escape this discourse.


>
M. J. Young....... I certainly agree with John Wesley, that if your heart is where my heart
> is, doctrine will find its own agreement.


Ozay wrote.......Yes John Wesley was in exceptance of this truth but even he had to be carful of what he knew and what he could say he knew, he knew a lot more than the Church would allow him to confess at the time that is why he began a new split away group, he recognised there was some thing wrong with the way orthodox Christianity worked, and history will tell you why things were being changed and the goals and motives, those goals and motives were not all concerned with saving souls.

M. J. Young.......Yet I cannot truly know where
> Wesley's heart was and he could not have known where mine is,


Ozay wrote........This confession says it all, the heart is only in one place, the heart is a union with the all, the heart is unity, when you find this then you find Jesus and you find all the saints and god you find their residence is in unity of divine love, the reason you make this statement is because to you the heart is divided not unified and that is because to you the heart is not felt but 'THOUGHT' this therefore suggests you do not know what it is all about and you purely have an intellectual stand point the mind is not unified and can never be unified the mind cannot know love it can only consider it, the mind cannot experience love only the centre of FEELING can do this and this centre of feeling will only become activated when one isolates oneself and transends the mind the mind being divided in nature ones transened the soul recognises its divine quality is love and by that sees all gods creation as itself.

and
M. J. Young....... neither of us can know that the other's heart is in the right place.
> So, too, I cannot know whether your subjective experience is valid
> except as it comports with the objective descriptions of the Christian
> faith found in the New Testament.


Ozay wrote.......No you are wrong, you have not listened because you are too busy trying to teach when you should first listen and then follow the true path, you just do not know the true path and that is why you say none of us can know, if this was true why does everyone except the word of a saint, or the word of Jesus? When you have found this truth, you know it is correct and you identify to all those who have gone before you, you also know who doesnotknow this truth and who merely comes from a divided mind, and that is the clue one who has travelled the depth of the heart speaks and breaths unity, one who has not gone this way speaks in divided terms .i .e you cannot know my heart.....one who has gone there will say " I AM YOUR HEAR AS YOU ARE MINE WE ARE ONE AND THE SAME" You can know that my experience is valid by losing your position in the church lose your money your home go into isolation and then you "WILL KNOW WHAT IS BEING SAID HERE AS THE TRUTH" because then it will be your experience rather than your thoughts and beliefs on the subject matter.




M. J. Young.......I am particularly conversant in the
> writings of Paul, and what you write seems to me very contrary to what
> he wrote. I will always take what Paul explained about Christianity
> over what anyone else explained--he has impeccable credentials. Nothing
> in Paul's writings suggests to me that the Christian message is "know
> yourself". It seems much more to be "surrender yourself to Christ". We
> only discover ourselves as we abandon our rights and our goals for Him.


Ozay wrote.......It is not a matter of what is written on hardback that gives you the truth, all this gives you is belief and that is a matter of identifying with belief, the true book to get this information from you have carried with you since you wee lieing in your mothers whomb, but it is so close to home it is too close for you to see, stand back and look at yourself that is the first page see yourself, again yes I understand the meaning of surrender yourself to Christ, it means surrender yourself to divine love this is also serving humanity my heart told me all of this already without having read it from any ST Paul, it was already the law of the heart it was always written in that book of the self, but if you do not see it in yourself it will only be an inferior belief rather than a superior truth build on solid rock.


>
M. J. Young....... You might be right about many things, but I think you are entirely wrong
> about what Jesus taught, what Paul explained, what Peter and James and
> John preached. You tell me that you know what the true Christian
> message is because you find it inside yourself; I tell you that I know
> what the true Christian message is because I find it in the words of
> books that have withstood the test of centuries as the measure of that
> message. It would be logically irrational for me to embrace what you
> feel must be right instead of what those writings tell me.
>


Ozay wrote........ I am right about everything I speak if it is not understood as truth it is only because of the poor facility of communication we have to transfer this truth, and because I have "NO BELIEF" as my guide this means everything I speak of is correct otherwise I do not speak out of beleif and I will not argue because the truth of identifying to belief I also understand is for many this way and it is theis truth that most of humanity fall into beleif that is the cause of division and war both within self and within the world that is the truth and the cause of all suffering you have been exposed to the truth and as I have said now it is likely that you will break with me because after all your ego identity has taken you many years to create and here this guy Ozay Rinpoche is with one foul swoop taking it all away by saying it is all wrong all useless persuit this is a shock to the system and to be expected, but I know at heart you will find the truth one day and that though now you struglle with these words because they go against all you have becoe identified with in time the fruits will break through, it is just a matter of time now that you have been exposed


M. J. Young.......Thank you for sharing such insights as you have. I hope and pray that
> you will see that the ways of God are much larger than you envision.

Ozay wrote......Indeed I see the God is much larger than a select few of people who call themselves Christians I see that what Jesus taught belongs to all of humanity and part of seeing this can only happen when the banner of identifying is taken down from over their heads then it will be a universal love, not Catholics are the only ones who are going to be saved or whatever cult Christian group you identify with, you will even embrace your Hindui brothers or you Buddhist brothers and see no distinction from them to you, this is why I do not call myself religious I do not call myself a scholar I call myself love divine love and therefore I am in everyone and united with the universe, how much larger than that can anyone get? I hope that you begin to see that it is not about Christian scholars it is about the whole of humanity the whole universe and therefore it is I who should correct you and say to your ego I hope you see that God is much larger than this...your ego identifying.


>